Curse

Edge Martinez · Aug 30, 2005, 09:28 AM // 09:28

Since I can only get in PUGs for tombs PvP, I mess around alot. With a Mesmer, half the battle is your opening move. Aside from running the typical anticaster or shudown mesmer builds, I've recently tried a Mesmer/Necromancer build designed for stealing a kill at the start of the match. So far it has worked 5 out of 7 times, but I think it can be better.

Mesmer/Necro
Domination: 15 (12+3)
Curses: 12
Fast Casting: 5 (3+2)
*Just able to use runes I've unlocked so far.

Skills that matter: Soul Barbs, Wastrel's Worry, Shatter Enchantment, Backfire, Powerspike/Energy Burn.

Basically, when both teams go for the monks at the start of the match (granted, this has to happen), while the monks are busy healing each other and taking damage, you single out a caster (ele, necro ir mesmer) and take him down quick or at the least force the monks to split their healing and maybe they'll go down.

It goes: Soul Barbs, Backfire, WW, WW, WW, WW, WW, etc. When he throws up a mending or healing enchantment, drop Shatter and you can go for the throat with Powerspike or with Energy Burn equipped. The WW's also hide backfire and barbs.

Surprisingly, this setup with Empathy and Price of Failure instead of Backfire took down a TF Axe warrior fast and his healers were too busy running to help him.

Anyhow, for what it is, a quick kill strategy on a non-priority target with only backup mesmer support afterwards due to energy demands, please rip this apart or add something in. So far it works ok, but the lack of an elite skill bothers me and I'm sure it can be more efficient.

Thanks.

Sigil · Aug 30, 2005, 01:36 PM // 13:36

Just a comment on a possible elite - powerblock. You already have a ton of points in dom.

Once battle is joined, start your chain on your target, wait 3-5 secs, target a monk, powerblock, go back to your chain. Sometimes you can catch an orison or healing seed, in which case you have just hosed a healing monk. If they are using healing touch or rof you either have to be prescient, lucky, or switch targets.

Either way, with all the specialization in tombs groups, one powerblock alone can shut down or severely reduce a monk while it lasts.

Louis Ste Colombe · Aug 30, 2005, 04:06 PM // 16:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sigil

Just a comment on a possible elite - powerblock. You already have a ton of points in dom.

Once battle is joined, start your chain on your target, wait 3-5 secs, target a monk, powerblock, go back to your chain. Sometimes you can catch an orison or healing seed, in which case you have just hosed a healing monk. If they are using healing touch or rof you either have to be prescient, lucky, or switch targets.

Either way, with all the specialization in tombs groups, one powerblock alone can shut down or severely reduce a monk while it lasts.

I second that... I'd probably go powerblock/diversion/WW than powerspike/backfire/WW. Diversion just in case they can cast something after powerblock, or for going at two targets. And it works better with WW anyway.
Power leak is also probably better than spike, if only because it serves your purpose better... Although energy denial and diversion are kind of contradictory IMO.

Is Energy an issue? I'd guess it is... Do you need the 12 in curses? Beside Soul Barbs? Would you consider a bit of inspiration, for a bit more energy denial or energy management?

I wonder if you can play Malaise with that kind of build. Low energy easy recast? All the better if they take it off.

Or no Powerblock -> lingering curse, and no need for shatter enchant. I had a Soul Barb/ Diversion/ WW build: it's kind of fun

(not really successfull, but fun

)
But I have not tried Powerblock or Lingering Curse with that...

Louis,

Nash · Aug 30, 2005, 04:23 PM // 16:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Edge Martinez

Skills that matter: Soul Barbs, Wastrel's Worry, Shatter Enchantment, Backfire, Powerspike/Energy Burn.

In reference to the first two, I guess matters as in, are totally worthless and belong on the trash heap?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Edge Martinez

When he throws up a mending

Onoes, not Mending. If you see Mending a lot, it just says a lot about the teams you're facing - and thus a lot about your wins with the build.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Edge Martinez

Surprisingly, this setup with Empathy and Price of Failure instead of Backfire took down a TF Axe warrior fast and his healers were too busy running to help him.

You can kill people with Flare too. Doesn't mean it's good.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Edge Martinez

Anyhow, for what it is, a quick kill strategy on a non-priority target

And this is good how?

zehly · Aug 30, 2005, 05:41 PM // 17:41

God damn, you're a very negative person. Since you seem to know it all, please enlighten us with your awesome build for the Me/N that would totally "pwn" this one.

kthx

Nash · Aug 30, 2005, 05:44 PM // 17:44

Sure, just use this. You can't lose.

Mariena Feladon · Aug 30, 2005, 05:48 PM // 17:48

Or, on a more serious note, try this

Sereng Amaranth · Aug 30, 2005, 05:58 PM // 17:58

I think I'll use that program's advice ... My Ran/Mo would like this setup ...

Ranger/Monk
11 Marksmanship
9 Beastmastery
8 Protection Prayers
8 Wilderness Survival

Determined Shot
Contemplation of Purity
Ferocious Strike [Elite]
Debilitating Shot
Mend Ailment
Bestial Pounce
Frozen Soil
Maiming Strike

I mean, cmon ... who needs a pet for a beastmaster build?

zehly · Aug 30, 2005, 06:05 PM // 18:05

*EDIT* Removed flames.

But seriously, the OP is looking to have his build tweaked. I think it looks good, and is worth a try in random at least..

mr_boo · Aug 30, 2005, 06:16 PM // 18:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nash

Sure, just use this. You can't lose.

Way too funny!

Nash · Aug 30, 2005, 06:25 PM // 18:25

Ironically, the original version of that program came out of Ensign postulating that a build generated at random would be as good as most of the Me/N and N/Me builds posted here on Guru. So I decided to write one. This version has been modified from that original one to allow any profession combo.

You can see the original one being put into use here:
http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...ead.php?t=3901 (check for Ensign's post)

ElderAtronach · Aug 30, 2005, 06:54 PM // 18:54

If you follow all the links, you get to see Nash being a newb.

It's funny if you want silent revenge for the times he's trashed you.

Nash · Aug 30, 2005, 07:02 PM // 19:02

That build is made by the randomizer, obviously. Hence the link by Ensign.

ElderAtronach · Aug 30, 2005, 07:06 PM // 19:06

Are you sure? You didn't make it sound like you used the randomizer at all...

He's trying to cover up the fact that he was once a newb!

Nash · Aug 30, 2005, 07:13 PM // 19:13

I don't deny I was once a newb, we all were, but is still a randomized build. Pretending it's not was the point. All the replies are by people on IRC who were in on it, unfortunately we didn't get any other replies.

Scaphism · Aug 30, 2005, 07:15 PM // 19:15

The random Me/N build generator! I thought it had perished!

Way to bring it back Nash. Timely use of it.

Seriously, this is another build not worth refining, IMO.

Here are a few reasons it is bad, and unsalvagable:
1) Wastrel's Worry is a horrid skill. Don't know why? Try the search button first. Still don't know why? Come back and ask.
2) You have stated that it's purpose is to kill non-priority targets.
3) You count on fighting opponents using mending or similar terrible skills.
4) You cast Wastrel's Worry then cover it with Backfire, then cover it with Wastrel's Worry.

That last example really bugs me. I'm not trying to be mean here, but it makes me want to fly off the handle when I see a combo like that. (Also when I have Backfire cast on my ranger/necro- what the hell spells am I going to spam when you see me using 1 spell every 30s?).
Honest question: Did you take the time to think about how those two skills interact?
I'm going to give it a cursory analysis:

Wastrel's Worry hurts an enemy when they fail to use a skill once every 3s (not a good play to start, again use the search feature. This is undeniably what the skill does however.)
Backfire: Hurts an enemy whenever they use a specific subset of skills (spells).

Take a look at the basic interaction between those two skills, then come back and tell me this is a combination you want to use against a good player.

My honest advice: Start playing good builds. Cookie cutters are generally that way for a reason: they're based off of a solid template. Failing that, stop playing bad builds. To do that, think about what your strategy is while using the build.

If your purpose is go to into the random arena and "just mess around and have fun" then go ahead and play whatever you like. If that's what you're doing, then why are you posting the build here?

Finally, if you want to continue using this combination, my one tweak would be to drop backfire. Pick up Arcane Conundrum or Migraine. At least then you'll be reinforcing Wastrel's Worry instead of actively countering it.

ElderAtronach · Aug 30, 2005, 07:16 PM // 19:16

Quote:

I don't deny I was once a newb, we all were, but is still a randomized build. Pretending it's not was the point. All the replies are by people on IRC who were in on it, unfortunately we didn't get any other replies.

Ah, ok. Dang, I thought I had caught you in a blunder. Hehe

Edge Martinez · Sep 01, 2005, 07:10 AM // 07:10

Thanks to most of you for the helpful input.

Scaphism, 2, 3 and 4 from your reply made me decide to not bother with it anymore. Not that it matters, but I do use cookie cutter builds. Alot. This was just me trying new things as I have no choice but to run with PUGs.

Quote:

Honest question: Did you take the time to think about how those two skills interact?

Yep. Nothing like the way you made it sound like I was doing. Water under the bridge anyhow.

Scaphism · Sep 01, 2005, 07:00 PM // 19:00

Thanks for not taking it personally. I'm not trying to intentionally hurt people's feelings. I've found the best way to correct people is to be blunt- if it looks like they're doing something wrong, point it out so it can be fixed.

Maybe we need an area where people can post "experimental" or "just for fun" builds. That way people who are not interested in reading someone's latest invention can find the kind of builds he or she is looking for.

What do you think? I've never hidden the fact that I'm primarily interested in builds that are competetive in an 8v8 format, but if there's enough demand for a "Casual" or "Theoretical" builds section we could probably add it, and maybe it would dispel some of the tension that's been apparent recently.

Rey Lentless · Sep 01, 2005, 07:27 PM // 19:27

The build isn't as bad as he tried to make it sound. Wastrel's is a good skill to use for this.

Wastrel's can do ~100 damage for 5 energy with soul barbs.

I wouldn't use wastrel's as a cover hex however.. something like parasitic bond would be good for that.